Bergisons Motion Integrated G-Seat
The Motion Integrated G-Seat
Newest video: Teaser (2:01)
Video 1: Introduction (10:21)
Video 2: Racing Cars (7:06)
Video 3: Aircraft (8:33)
The Motion Integrated G-Seat in my F/A-18E flight simulator The Motion Integrated G-Seat in my F/A-18E flight simulator
The Motion Integrated G-Seat

 

 

Raphael Baker posted on 27.7.2020 at 12:15

The problem with going into partnership and having the seat professionally made in larger quantities is that it is then priced beyond the reach of most users.

I notice a comment below suggesting 3000 - 4000 which is a great example of it going beyond the reach of most flight sim fans.

It would be nice if kits could be made professionally.


 

Zracer posted on 18.7.2020 at 20:57

I just watched your videos about this device - amazing! I agree, I think it combines the best of both worlds - a g-seat and a motion platform, but with a very compact footprint.  I am a former pro level race car driver and am currently building a sim rig.  But I am also a student pilot.  This would be perfect for both activities.  Sign me up for one!  I am ready with my credit card right now! I think given the booming market for sim rigs since the pandemic, this would sell like hot cakes if you can keep the price reasonable.  You mention that you built your prototype for around 1500 Euros.  Maybe sell them for 3000 to 4000 Euros?  I think you would be making these for years to come, and sell tens of thousands of them.


 

Rob posted on 08.6.2020 at 11:29

Fantastic work! I'd love to see make a shot off the catapult then come in for a landing  slamming back on the deck for in an F-14 off the new super carrier in DCS. Keep me posted. I will be purchasing this as soon as it hits the market. The GS5 doesn't support DCS, which represents a hole in the market. Plus, the added motion here is exciting to see. 


 

Volans posted on 07.6.2020 at 19:25

Once a month I came here to find the news.In the past I was considering to buy an DOF Reality 2 axis. Not anymore. When I saw your project everything else just faded, and is all your fault :)Kickstarting it might be an option. I'll even buy a prototype.Also I'm from EU, just like you, manufacturing here is an advantage for me.


 

Gcompc posted on 23.5.2020 at 22:13

I would love to have something like this. I think kickStarter would be the way to go. However I would not be looking for a manufacturer that could produce this unit.
Prototyping, tooling and other associated costs would drive initial production costs through the roof. It's also a niche market so you wouldn't want to be looking at initial runs of 100-500 units to make it worth the manufacturer's time.
As a KickStarter project you and a team, if required prototype the unit, which it looks like you have already done.
You then break the unit into assemblies then start looking for suppliers of the parts and assemblies. Try to use off the shelf parts where possible.
Find a manufacturer or manufacturers for customized components as needed. You basically become a contractor. You choose what to fabricate or manufacture yourself.
A successful KickStarter campaign will provide funds to support this part of the project.
You set up a small assembly shop for final testing of the unit.

Again contract a packaging and shipping company for product delivery.
This lessens the stress of trying to do it all, it also gives you more initial control and costs over the project.
Just my thoughts (as someone who has been through this), hope they are helpful or give you some more ideas.

Bergison

Hello Gcompc and thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions, they are highly appreciated!

Launching a kickstarter is a very realistic option I am looking into at the moment. But because I have offers from possible investors as well, I have to gauge which path would be better for this project.

I fully agree with the strategy you laid out but unfortunately, things are not that easy in the country I live because I cannot just build and sell technical stuff on my own without the proper qualification as an engineer or technician, which - as a pilot - I haven't. It is all very strictly regulated.

That is why I approached a qualified production company. They are just figuring out the production costs involved. I hope to be able to provide tangible updates soon! Thanks for your interest and please stay tuned!
 

K Warner posted on 17.5.2020 at 0:08

I'm quite thrilled  by your product. My interest is in belicopter flight simulation. I watched the videos several times but I wasn't sure if I was able to detect surge, heave and sway, important forces for helicopter simulation, particularly in the hover. Does your seat provide 6 DOF or fewer? Kind regards.

Bergison

Thanks for your questions K Warner. The Motion Integrated G-Seat cannot be compared to a motion platforms in terms of degrees of freedom. It uses 3 DoF as the motion part, but in combination with the pressure part (base, backrest and harness), is able to simulate forces in all spatial dimensions! Other than a pure motion platform, these effects are sustainable and quickly reversible in direction. It can also simulate negative (upward) acceleration, which a platform cannot.
 

Terje Helle posted on 14.5.2020 at 14:54

So, a new teaser on YT. Any news on your product?

Bergison

Hey Terje, well there are bad and good news. So here's a little update on the project:

Unfortunately the mentioned company is not making progress in a reasonable timeframe.

So me and my business partner are now evaluating means of launching the seat ourselves! We already found a promising company for production and assembly in close proximity to where I live and are now searching for and reaching out to possible investors to get this going.

If you or anybody else want to help, please spread the word (e.g. in sim forums and communities) to reach a larger audience.

Thanks and stay tuned!
 

Håkan posted on 14.5.2020 at 15:10

Really great work, looking forward to the release.

Bergison

Thanks Håkan, I hope to be able to provide updates soon. Stay tuned!
 

Der Hirte posted on 22.4.2020 at 5:43

I'm wondering if this seat translates things like engine rumble, which is something passive and ever-present, like a JetSeat does? Or do I have to combine these to get it additionally?

Bergison

My prototype has a bass-shaker included which adds vibrations from engines, tires and such. It is a simple but great item for those higher frequency vibrations. I think a commercial version should include one too, or at least provide addon possibilities.
 

Scorpio posted on 03.4.2020 at 12:45

Bergison thankfully invited me over to try his pit. Knowing his amazing work from this page, it did not prepare me for what it really does to you.
When you roll down the runway and hit the centerline lights with your nosewheel you get repetitive kicks, just like in the real plane. Flying low level, turbulence shakes you around in all directions.
I found myself subconsciously holding my breath before pulling into a g-turn and considering if I could take the load before pulling into another one.
Amazing what it does to your brain!

Bergison

Thanks Scorpio, glad you enjoyed it!
 

Scorpio posted on 03.4.2020 at 12:21

Yes, can't wait

SunCup

Can't even think to wait 
 

Volans posted on 06.3.2020 at 19:28

Hi ! Any news on the prototype? Really looking forward to this seat, already started saving for it :)

Bergison

Hi Volans, sorry to say there are no news recently from the company building the prototype. Their last word was they want to have it finished within 60 days, that would be around May/June...

Marco

Looking forward to it :)

 

João Pinho posted on 06.3.2020 at 18:59

Hello, I had assimilar ideia and searching the web I found your site!!! Wish best luck and looking forward in the next chapter of your G chair! Best regards

Bergison

Thanks João!
 

Alex Z posted on 26.1.2020 at 14:50

Building the prototype is already good news! Patience is a sublime virtue, they say.. Please keep us posted! Cheerio, Alex

SunCup

Tally ho !!I start provisonning fund !!

 

Alex posted on 24.1.2020 at 17:17

Hi Bergison! I can‘t wait to (hopefully) get one or two of your seats for my future simulator.. are there already some news if you can continue working on a commercial production? Best greetings from Austria and thanks for inventing such amazing things! Alex

Bergison

Hi Alex and thanks for your post!
Progress is slow but steady. The company I mentioned is now starting to build the production prototype. Too early to estimate a release date, but it seems to me more and more likely that this is going to happen after all!
Please stay tuned!

 

Julien posted on 08.12.2019 at 21:54

Hello Bergison,
It is a very interesting project. I plan for a long time building a G-seat (few years ago, I even watch your first video from 2014...). I don't have too much space for a 3DOF simulator, but your idea seems to bring both 3DOF and G seat in a reduced space so it's great...
I hope you can do at least a small production and sell it. I will probably buy one if I don't try to do one myself before.

I have few questions:
- I know you are in discussion with some industrials to bring it to the market, but do you have a kind of schedule already ?
- Is a DIY kit (with drawings and/or some material) still considered ?
- Regarding the movement in turn/roll:
In a car, when you turn right, the centrifugal force will push you to the left, so I believe the 2 left flaps (leg and back) should raise giving you the feeling that your body has moved left and it's creating a kind of compression against the seat.
I believe this is similar in a plane when you roll right, your body tend to stay in place and so your are in compression against the left side.
I'm right or completly wrong?
I'm wondering, because I have the feeling that the movements we see in the videos are opposite to my explanation.

Thank you in advance for your reply and I hope you can give us some good news about your seat soon.
Julien.

Bergison

Hi Julien and thanks for your post!

1) no schedule for production yet I'm afraid. Me and my business partner are still negotiating terms with this mentioned company, but everything takes longer than expected although they say that they are eager to get this going quickly. A few days ago they sketched out about one month for prototyping works and another 6 months until a sellable unit could be available. Lets see...
2) Yes, a DIY option is part of the negotiations. We want to retain the rights to publish/sell DIY plans, instructions and a possible kit for the mechanics.
3) You are absolutely right about the movement and forces during accelerations. The seat does exactly what you described: e.g. in a left turn (car or aircraft), the seat tilts right (shifts body and eypoint) and increases pressure on the right side. This is perceived as being pushed to the right. During upward acceleration (flying inverted for example), the seat rises up (again shifting body and eyepoint), decreases pressure from base and back and tensiones the harness, giving you the impression of being lifted out of the seat.
I hope this answeres you questions, feel free to inquire again if not!

 

Pierre Lalancette posted on 24.11.2019 at 16:34

Hi Bergison.
I've been building a 6 DOF for years now and your seat is making noise into our community. I think it is well done and I hope you get to the commercial units soon. I won't buy it, as I have mine, but I will try to steel every great ideas from yours and integrated them into my build. ;)
Long live to your G-Seat.
Pierre. 

Bergison

Thanks Pierre!
 

Alex posted on 05.11.2019 at 11:14

Hi Bergison,

I have to say that I am totally blown away with the seat!
I have a few questions regarding it if you wouldn’t mind please answering.

1. I presume the batteries are used to supply the power for the seat motion.
  a. I am curious why you have designed it to run on batteries vs running on mains power?
  b. What is the battery endurance in hours?
  c. How long is their charge time?

2. Do you have any plans for adding the stick and/or throttle mounting base to work in conjunction with the seat? As from I can see, the seat will do all the movement but the stick will not move with it.

I am totally interested in this and would absolutely love to buy one when available to the public!

Awesome work!
Alex

Bergison

Hi Alex, thanks for your nice comment! To your questions:

1) correct, I use two AGM batteries '12LCP-50' with 50 Ah each.
1a) the motors frequently hit their stall current due to the quick reversal of motion and thus produce quite large spikes in current, reaching over 30 A per motor. Although I guess there are PSUs available which can handle this, it is much easier (and cheaper) to use batteries. Another option would be to use (smaller) batteries in parellel with a PSU or charger, but this again would add to complexity and costs.
1b) I have not measured max. endurance yet. It would also heavily depend on the kind of usage. Frequent, rapid movement (e.g. aerobatics, dogfighting) of course draws more amps than an airliner. My batteries are not nearly half empty even after several hours of heavy 'F-18' duty.
1c) see 1b. Also depends on the used charger.

2) There might be this option on a future commercial version, but for my seat, no. I found the motion relative to fixed controls (in my cockpit as well as during tests with a steering wheel) perfectly appropriate for the respective acceleration. Try it yourself in a car: when you hit the brakes, you get pushed closer to the steering wheel. It would feel strange, if the wheel also moved forward, no?

It actually looks quite promising that the seat will get available in the near future. Me and my business partner are just starting negotiations with a company very eager to build and launch it :)

I hope to be able to provide more details soon, stay tuned!

 

Nicholas posted on 27.10.2019 at 2:58

Love the work you've done. Not gonna lie you kinda beat me to the punch. Ive been sitting on a simular yet different idea, one that just uses straps so congrats. Also i cant wait to buy one, but im curious how much one might cost, as well as if it'll fit in an rv? Also just an fyi i posted a question on your most recent youtube vid. Last question, can the base be shortened at all? 

Bergison

Hi Nicholas, thanks for your comment! Using straps (or flaps) alone does actually provide good feedback, but I found the combination of motion AND pressure to be really convincing. As I am not going to produce a commercial version myself, I cannot tell at the moment how much one unit is going to cost. It will heavily depend on production numbers, used materials and included features. As the internal mechanism and actuation is not very complicated though, I have hopes that it will be affordable to the public. The seat does not require a lot of space as you can see in the video where the seat is installed in my F-18 cockpit. The base of the seat could me smaller if needed, as it only houses the batteries and parts of the motors.

Nicholas

Just to be clear, if i wanted a seat reclined at a 35-40° angle with the seat itself(i.e. the part your glutes are on) being roughly 3 inchs from the floor to the bottom of the backside, it could be done?

Bergison

That would mostly depend on which kind of actuators/motors you want to use and how much space they require. The force distributing mechanism of the seat itself does not take up a lot of space, but given that the amount of vertical travel is about that far, 3 inch from the floor would certainly be too little.

Nicholas

So i just found a g seat that uses simular principles, may i post the link?

Bergison

Sure, please do.

Nicholas

So i was looking for your videos and i found this. https://youtu.be/aQMNXqJmPIE i dont think they use the strap idea you use though.

Bergison

Right, this is the GS5 G-Seat. It is also a G-cueing system in the form of a seat and, like mine, has moveable internal elements to simulate pressure on the body. But this is where the similarities end. The GS5 is an otherwise completely static system, which means it does not move the body around in 3 DoF like the Motion Integrated G-Seat does. It can thereby not provide the immersive combination of motion AND pressure and also features no veritable eyepoint shifting with acceleration.
Moreover, it has no moveable seat belt and shoulder harness (as you correctly observed) and can thereby not truly simulate acceleration away (like forward or upward) from the seat, which is essential in cars (forward for braking) as well as in aircraft (upward for negative Gs).
I don’t want to disparage the GS5 seat here, it is certainly a capable system in its field. But you can’t meaningfully compare it with the Motion Integrated G-Seat.

Nicholas

Ok so lets take just the preasure and the straps but no motion parts, how low would the back of the basebe able to sit when tilt at a 40 degree angle?
 

Ian posted on 21.10.2019 at 20:22

Very interested in your seat! Can you give updates about your project? When this comes out, I\'m buying!!!

Bergison

Hi Ian,thanks for your post! Many companies showed interest in the seat and two (one in the US and one in Europe) are currently evaluating a possible manufacture and market launch, but it is too early to say if and when. I hope to be able to give more definitive news soon! Stay tuned!

 

Jamie posted on 07.10.2019 at 4:12

do you have plans? I want to try and build one of these.Thanks!

Bergison

Hi Jamie, plans are not available yet, as I am still in the process of trying to bring the seat to market. Thank you for your understanding. 
 

Jason posted on 04.8.2019 at 14:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwkgSz3RbQ
Would be so cool to try that with No Limits 2 Roller Coaster Simulator + VR! 


 

The_Ignotus posted on 19.7.2019 at 22:16

Hi and thank you for being an enthusiast ;)Are there any updates on the talks with the potential manufactures?Did you think about making the Ejection levlers function as buttons?And did you think about adding a stick base mountig plate for Thrustmaster Warthog and Virpil for example, like a plate with predrilled holes?And most importand for me:Is this seat / XSim compatible with DCS World?
I defently want one of theese, because it is the FIRST seat i find in the two years im searching for a f-18c seat on which it makes sense to start building a VR Sim system around. :DThank you for your dedication and work!!!

Bergison

Hi The_Ignotus and thanks for your message!

1) There are currently two companies (one in the US and one in Europe) evaluating a production. Both are interested in bringing the seat to market but it will take some time.
We are also in contact with some other companies and individuals for possible production and partnership. To sum it up, there is a lot of interest but at the same time it is hard to find a company wich has the expertise, facilities AND the financial background to build and launch a completely new system.
It all takes longer than I expected, but it looks promising that the seat will be available for the public "someday"...

2) Both the side levers and the ejection handle are operative on my prototype and I agree with you that prefabricated mounting options for flight controls would definitively be a good thing to have on a future consumer version.

3) Yes, my seat uses x-sim for simulator interface and I have currently set it up for both FSX/P3D and DCS. The exported parameters out of the sims are a bit different, but work equally well.
My guess is that a future marketing company would either use their proprietary software or make the hardware x-sim compatible (or maybe both?).

 

Sacapuces posted on 24.6.2019 at 1:31

Hi! Looks dope. I you ever find a company to make it or agree to sell plans/instruction, hit me up, I would definitely be interrested. 

Bergison

Thanks Sacapuces, I'll keep you updated!
 

Digger posted on 22.5.2019 at 5:56

This seat dose look really great, and the design looks robust, what about noise, latency , software,? I am interested should the seat go to manufacture. As I am a real world pilot I think it could be used in semi professional flight sims for training. Keep me posted please!

Bergison

Thanks Digger, the seat has no perceptible latency and the sound it emits is easily drowned out by engine noise. During flight, I don't hear the motors and mechanics of the seat at all. For software interface I use X-Sim at the moment.

 

Jon posted on 29.5.2019 at 9:08

I want this for Elite: Dangerous. Kickstarter this. I will fund you. :)


 

Nick posted on 28.4.2019 at 20:53

So, first you need to file for a patent. Once that's done, talking to contract manufacturers would be next step. You will want to focus on manufacturers that are lower volume, and preferably ones that have facilities in Mexico or Asia.
I would recommend crowd funding this if you are serious, but plan for manufacturing to be more expensive than you think. Most tech Kickstarters fail at this step, as reliability testing and design changes as a result run up the costs quickly.
Good luck! I've bookmarked your site to keep tabs on it once in awhile. I'm quite interested in purchasing this if it becomes available!

Bergison

Thanks Nick, all steps you mentioned (except the kickstarter) have already been taken care of. I received a positive review for an international patent application (PCT) and we are in talks with potential manufacturing companies. I'll keep you updated!

 

Jett posted on 21.4.2019 at 21:30

Your seat looks to copy the existing design of the Simxperience G-Seat. 

Bergison

No Jett, not a bit! The mechanics of my seat are fundamentally different. They drive seat motion, seat geometry and harness belts all at once.

To my knowledge, the Simexperience seat is static with moving paddles and can as such be mounted on some kind of ancillary motion system.

Andre Pointner

Ha, ha, it's like comparing a Ford T-Model to a Porsche GT2. Ok both have four wheels, but that was it *g

 

Wayne Edwards posted on 20.4.2019 at 4:27

Hi Bergison,

Absolutely awesome Motion Integrated G-Seat man. Thanks. 

I have a couple of Andre's KW-908 jet-seats, one in a Block 52 F16 cockpit and another in an F1 Car simulator (both home built) which have been great and added to the total immersion of both sims I use.....but this is a totally different dimension and as I can see immersion level. I am excited and thanks for sharing your awesome project.

I to would be extremely interested in a Motion Integrated DIY kit. Have you made any progress along those lines in the past couple of months?

Cheers…Wayne

Bergison

Hi Wayne,
thanks for your comment! I am still investigating means of making a commercial version of the seat available not only for professional use but also affordable to the sim community.

The DIY version with a kit and/or the plans and instructions is still also something I'd like to realize, but it will take some more time, hang on!

 

Peter posted on 28.2.2019 at 15:31

Unbelievable, this is amazing. I just got into VR and this would add so to the immersion factor. I do think you need to have a real cockpit with switches as you will not be able to move a mouse cursor to manipulate switches.
I hope you find a way to market this. I could imagine selling a part list and plans too but how do you prevent people from sharing it?
Keep me posted!

Bergison

Thanks Peter! Having a "real" cockpit is nice of course, but you don't necessarily need one with the seat. It is also great with just some controllers and a screen or with a VR headset.

Actually, it is also hard if not impossible to manipulate switches in a real aircraft during agressive maneuvers or severe turbulence. The same applies for using a mouse cursor, it only adds to the realism!

 

Alex Antonio posted on 26.2.2019 at 15:20

Incredible work. How much maintenance is required on the seat? Are the parts easily replaceable/repairable if something breaks?

Bergison

Thanks Alex! Apart from charging the batteries, there is no maintenance required.The internal mechanism is very robust, I doubt something is going to break there anytime soon. The weakest parts would be the motors, but the seat is designed not to demand their maximum capacity. They merely get warm even during long operation. If a part there should fail, it would easily be accessible for repair or replacement.

 

Flemming Bleis Nielsen posted on 21.2.2019 at 11:16

Hello.....
I`ve been following you, since your first G-seat...
I´m building a VR cookpit, and have tryed some motion platforms, but non of them was any good, as you discovered too.
Can I in any way, buy your drawings ect, so I can buildt a G-seat my self, and avoid all the trails n`errors you have discovred ?
FAB

Bergison

Hello and thanks for your question! I do not disclose or sell plans for the seat at this moment, as I am evaluating means of bringing it to market. This might include the possibility for DIY builders to purchase instructions or assembly kits too. Please hang on!

 

Gary posted on 12.2.2019 at 5:25

If you were to build a seat for an individual what would the approximate cost? Looks like a wonderful addition to any flight sim. Thanks, Gary

Bergison

Thanks Gary! Sorry to say, I don't have the time or resources to build any more seats myself at the moment. If you know a company willing to produce and market the seat, give them my number ;)

 

George posted on 02.2.2019 at 20:30

Wow! This is a really amazing concept!! Are you, or will you do a video of flying your F-18 with your Motion Integrated G-Seat? And Have you thought about doing a video such as MRPilot does in mixed reality. With your MIG-Seat (cool acronym, huh? :-) ) and F-18 cockpit, that would make a really awesome video!
(lot of work though)
Thanks for sharing!
BTW, the links in your earlier reply below are broken.

Bergison

Thanks George! Like I said at the end of video #2, I am working on the next video right now, showing the seat inside my F-18 simulator. I don't think I can produce something as cool as MRPilot though, but I'll do my best to show the seat performing in an aircraft as descriptively as possible!

Bergison

Video #3 of the seat inside my F/A-18 cockpit is now online: https://youtu.be/f7qaGk_-Ih0
 

Michael Smith posted on 30.1.2019 at 14:35

This is awesome!! Have you thought about selling the plans and software?

Bergison

Thanks Michael! Well, I am ready to start sales or contract talks with anyone, if he/she/the company in line intends to produce the seat in a reasonable quality and quantity to offer it in the public market.